Curse

English Warrior · Apr 10, 2009, 03:17 PM // 15:17

You want each month to use 1 campaign and change each different month, that is a horrible idea so the pvp'rs who bought the new campaigns have wasted money just cz they cant be assed to nerf skills sir that is a braindead idea.(from my view)

Apollo Smile · Apr 10, 2009, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

PvX'rs don't really have a say in whatever format of gameplay they are not familiar with. Speaking as a player who started out as a PvE'r and later made the transition to PvP, I can say that PvE has seen enough attention.

Let's take a look at what Anet has brought to PvE since the beginning of beta:

Sorrow's Furnace (Greens), Domain of Anguish, title-blessings, Hard Mode (tomes, lockpicks, high-req weapons), Loot Scaling, Dungeons, PvE skills, Urgoz/Deep, Summoning Stones, Consumables, M.O.X., end-game area for Prophecies, Heroes

Let's now take a look at what Anet has given PvP:

Battle Isles (making a seperate character that could only play RA/HA was annoying), Isle of the Nameless, AB, HB, Reward Points, Daily/Monthly Tourneys, Obs Mode......... and endless, slightly ineffective skill updates....

Now, let's take the same PvE list and see what is still being enjoyed:

HM, Dungeons, PvE skills, Summoning Stones, Cons, Heroes.

Now, let's take the same PvP list and see what is still being enjoyed:

Battle Isles (players still RA/TA), IotN, AB, HB, RPs, d/mATs, obs mode

Face it, PvP players have become used to getting the cold shoulder by Anet and have become dependant on any attention given to them. PvE'rs have, hoever, always enjoyed something for a while until something new, easier, and more rewarding comes along. Then, they ask for more. PvP'rs actually post their suggestions on how to balance the game, but since Anet thinks they do things better, we get only a few skills changed every few months. And that's if we are lucky.

Once the game is balanced, alot more build diversity will sprout. It would actually be interesting to see who is facing who and what each team is running instead of predicting the same degenerative crap that's been around for 5 months. Until then, teams are continuing to be dependant on LC, PnH, WE, WoH, PS, and smiters.

You forgot the real life prizes that people got in PVP tournaments up until April of 08.

Longasc · Apr 10, 2009, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

I do not claim to be an expert on any of this, but haven't people been saying "Current meta is shitter than usual" since the beginning of the game?

Indeed. Stale and shitty for years, without a few weeks were people had to find out new builds to make it so.

I wonder if the situation is really that bad. Or why we did not reach at least some balance in over 4 years, 1,5 years already since the last expansion.

And now something SWEET: Izzy's team that did not manage to balance GW1 in 4 years is now working on GW2!

Freeze_XJ · Apr 10, 2009, 06:10 PM // 18:10

I really can't get the point of 'it's nerfed, now i should whine!'. What is wrong with just USING that nerf, playing endurance-Jesusmonkwarrior with a whole team, cursing the other team with LC, and just throw as many nerfs as possible in one team? Be creative, think up a good counter (if everyone is relying on hexes, throw something removal in, and you beat em). Heck, how long did it take for folks to think up the 600-monk (PvE)? Those skills were there for a long time... Go be a good player, and do something with the skills that are given to you. Anet will change them if they feel fit, until then, deal with em.

Let's see what April brings us... No eggies yet.

Jecht Scye · Apr 10, 2009, 06:11 PM // 18:11

I thought I've already answered why there is no balance. Balance is subjective, not definitive, and otherwise non-existent. One person's balance is another person's annoyance. For instance, the guy further up on page 16 was commenting about how permasin's have been getting hit with unnecessary nerfs. He probably thinks the perma-sin is balanced. I, on the other hand would love to see permasins get hammered again. To me, the permasin is unbalanced. As far as PvP goes, so long as there are cookie cutter spiking builds that use basically 1-3 of different primary professions, there is not balance.

Tullzinski · Apr 10, 2009, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by English Warrior

You want each month to use 1 campaign and change each different month, that is a horrible idea so the pvp'rs who bought the new campaigns have wasted money just cz they cant be assed to nerf skills sir that is a braindead idea.(from my view)

I do not WANT anything I was putting forward a suggestion.

I would not envision this across all PVP sections just the Monthly Tourney for example which seems to be the one talked about mainly. Guild Signs up for MAT and then the limitation would take effect ONLY while competing in that contest. I dont see how this is a waste of money for people please explain.

@ wicked - thanks!!!

HawkofStorms · Apr 10, 2009, 07:48 PM // 19:48

I also find English Warrior's argument funny by saying that owning all the campaigns (a requirement for any serious PvPer anyways) is somehow detrimental. Pretty much nobody who currently participates in the monthly tournament would be restricted from playing due to Tullzinski's idea.

Medion · Apr 10, 2009, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Tullzinski, well done on thinking along as opposed to simply defending "your" side. However, ideas like this have been brought up before. There was even an official NF-only tournament I think already.

http://guildwarsguru.com/forum/showt...ht=Sealed+Deck

A suggestion by Moriz in september 2007
Though not completely the same, it has enough similarities. I believe this shows exactly why people who mostly PvP are frustrated. Anet has been given detailed solutions. Perfect? Probably not, the people who suggest these type of changes are not game designers. But if nothing comes out of them, skill balances are the only thing that do anything.

Actually, I think Izzy has even at times talked about wanting to do this? I'm not sure, never bothered to read wiki talk-pages much but if he did I'm sure someone is able to confirm this.

Dorian Orenda · Apr 10, 2009, 09:59 PM // 21:59

I can only hope and pray that part of this huge update includes a BARBER !
LoTRO has one, many other games as well. Anything you could do in real life should be implemented for your character. Hair style, color, color of skin (think tanning booths). Keep face. Name change one time per year, 500g, one skill point or something like that to keep it from being abused. Bring it !

jcoy42 · Apr 11, 2009, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Dear Anet:
Thanks for the heads up. I know I would much rather know what's up, be it for better or worse, than wonder.

Live team, keep doing what you're doing. No matter what people are saying, they're all glad you're there doing what you do, even if it doesn't always seem to be in their own best interests. Some of us believe you are paying attention and working to address what you can, even when it turns into something bigger than you'd expected, and I for one thank you for not ditching the effort.

To the folks working on GW2 who were pulled back to address this update, and to whoever decided it was worthwhile, you have my thanks as well. It tells me you are still interested and you want to keep the game going. That gives me the warm fuzzies.

To the folks who are upset about being stuck with the same metagame for a couple more weeks, you could always try to have fun with it. And if it's just beyond bearable, maybe this would be a good time to find another good book to read or something. Please try to remember it's a game, it's supposed to be fun. If it's not, just be aware you've surely got other things to do. I would suggest (re)reading Drizzt, Myth, or Bartimaeus if you're just wanting some entertainment.

But most of all, all you folks at working on this, as you read these replies, please remember- some people would rather complain than risk being happy. You can't avoid it, it's going to happen.

I for one look forward to this update, I hope it goes well, and again,

Thank you.

cloud4905 · Apr 11, 2009, 10:43 AM // 10:43

$10.00 for a Xunlai Tab is the WORST idea I have ever seen. I would have DEFINITELY paid $5.00 for 20 spaces more of storage, but why in god's name would I want to pay $10.00 for 20 spaces when I could buy a new character for that price and have 45 spaces (or more with this new character storage), or another copy of prophecies and have a whole other account of storage? REALLLLLLY bad decision on the pricing Anet. I seriously hope Regina sees messages like this and they change their pricing. I understand that server capacity dictates you need to charge for this, but $10.00 for a tab of 20 spaces of storage? Really Anet? How stupid do we look?

Redvex · Apr 11, 2009, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by cloud4905

$10.00 for a Xunlai Tab is the WORST idea I have ever seen. I would have DEFINITELY paid $5.00 for 20 spaces more of storage, but why in god's name would I want to pay $10.00 for 20 spaces when I could buy a new character for that price and have 45 spaces (or more with this new character storage), or another copy of prophecies and have a whole other account of storage? REALLLLLLY bad decision on the pricing Anet. I seriously hope Regina sees messages like this and they change their pricing. I understand that server capacity dictates you need to charge for this, but $10.00 for a tab of 20 spaces of storage? Really Anet? How stupid do we look?

Totally agree with you. I'm thinking the same things.

Sneaky Mcsneaksneak · Apr 11, 2009, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Overall, I'm disappointed, but I can deal with that.
I get more storage? This is good.
I have to pay to get even more, at the same price of a second account/extra slots? Doesn't make much sense there.
Hall of Monuments becomes account wide? Could care less. Yay, I can bring people into my HoM and have them look at all I've done. More e-peen all around.
I get my reward points? Yep. Happy there. Sorry to whoever didn't; it sucks to be you.
No skill changes? Ouch. UWSC gets another month, and I still don't want to make a sin. RoJ and CoP are still overpowered. PvE players who don't use them will keep crying, and those who do still won't care. As soon as they are nerfed, something else will pop up to take their place and it will start over again. And most of the PvP community just gets pissed again, because the meta will not change without a balance.
I'm kind of looking forward to the Menagerie and Challenge quests. I'm tired of having a wolf. From the description of the Challenge it looks like the PvP ones will be something to the effect of "Win X rounds in Y area!" and we get the one/two day(s) of influx into Y arena, then after a few weeks no one really cares anymore. The PvE ones COULD bring more interest back into neglected areas, but as soon as the new pve "meta" comes into effect, it will probably be the same as any high end area.
Should Anet have delayed the skill balance in favor of the "huge" update? Maybe, maybe not. But with the majority of resources being directed at GW2 (rightfully so) they probably had no choice. It may depend on how late or not they make the May update, and how much thought they put into it. For now, it just looks like until the big update, we'll have to wait.

Tullzinski · Apr 13, 2009, 06:53 PM // 18:53

@Hawk - I thought I was missing something

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medion

Tullzinski, well done on thinking along as opposed to simply defending "your" side. However, ideas like this have been brought up before. There was even an official NF-only tournament I think already.

http://guildwarsguru.com/forum/showt...ht=Sealed+Deck

A suggestion by Moriz in september 2007
Though not completely the same, it has enough similarities. I believe this shows exactly why people who mostly PvP are frustrated. Anet has been given detailed solutions. Perfect? Probably not, the people who suggest these type of changes are not game designers. But if nothing comes out of them, skill balances are the only thing that do anything.

Actually, I think Izzy has even at times talked about wanting to do this? I'm not sure, never bothered to read wiki talk-pages much but if he did I'm sure someone is able to confirm this.

I am not surprised that this kind of idea(in whatever form) has already been put forward seems like a good change of pace. Adopting something along these lines would get ANET out of the kill the build/skills rut they seem to be in.

Anon-e-mouse · Apr 14, 2009, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by English Warrior

I always thought the skills were split into "PvP" and "PvE", maybe im a ignorant PvP'er who doesn't know a thing about this game as people think to notice, who knows?

Only some skills have a PvP and a PvE version.. in all the incessant QQ'ing going on, I've never seen a single person asking for only PvP skill changes.

Lingering Curse is not a problem in PvE, but all the posters seem to want it taking a huge nerf bat, and pretty much the same thing with all the other skills mentioned, Mind Blast.. et al.. these are not broken in PvE, and calling for them to nerf these skills in PvE, only makes PvE even easier still.

So please remember when asking to nerf skills make sure you preface that request with "in PvP only".

Yichi · Apr 14, 2009, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anon-e-mouse

So please remember when asking to nerf skills make sure you preface that request with "in PvP only".

I am pretty sure that this is already implied when asking for a nerf or an adjustment to any given skill as very rarely is it ever seen that a skill is called for a nerf or adjustment due to PVE reasons.

Most if any PVE'rs are never going to bitch about something making PVE imbalanced and call for it to be changed...

Regina Buenaobra · Apr 15, 2009, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by cloud4905

$10.00 for a Xunlai Tab is the WORST idea I have ever seen. I would have DEFINITELY paid $5.00 for 20 spaces more of storage, but why in god's name would I want to pay $10.00 for 20 spaces when I could buy a new character for that price and have 45 spaces (or more with this new character storage), or another copy of prophecies and have a whole other account of storage? REALLLLLLY bad decision on the pricing Anet. I seriously hope Regina sees messages like this and they change their pricing. I understand that server capacity dictates you need to charge for this, but $10.00 for a tab of 20 spaces of storage? Really Anet? How stupid do we look?

Hi, cloud. I understand your perspective on this. I've been keeping an eye on the community response on this. I've already spoken to folks in the business team several times and conveyed all of the different responses to the storage update, including the opinions that it's "overpriced". We know that some people will choose not to buy this feature for any number of reasons. However, we've also seen a large number of comments from people who intend to buy it.

Lonesamurai · Apr 15, 2009, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Hi, cloud. I understand your perspective on this. I've been keeping an eye on the community response on this. I've already spoken to folks in the business team several times and conveyed all of the different responses to the storage update, including the opinions that it's "overpriced". We know that some people will choose not to buy this feature for any number of reasons. However, we've also seen a large number of comments from people who intend to buy it.

Maybe a middle ground?

A Lot of people have said they would buy for $5, so why not two tabs for $10 and leave it at that?

Empress Amarox · Apr 15, 2009, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Hi, cloud. I understand your perspective on this. I've been keeping an eye on the community response on this. I've already spoken to folks in the business team several times and conveyed all of the different responses to the storage update, including the opinions that it's "overpriced". We know that some people will choose not to buy this feature for any number of reasons. However, we've also seen a large number of comments from people who intend to buy it.

If it were my business, I'd set the price at $10, let everyone that's going to buy it, buy it. Then, reduce the price so that those that refuse to buy it at such a high price then buy it at the reduced price, thus maximizing profits - of course, you keep all this on the down low and don't let them know you're doing this -- that way you look like the good guys, like "We've studied the market trends, and largely due to customer response, we have decided to lower the price of storage panes to $4.99 to better provide service to a larger consumer base." Then, at that point, you're going to have a whole bunch of people congratulating you for listening to them, and happily buying your product. Of course, they don't know you intentionally screwed them over, but all in all, business in business, and you're in it to make money.

That's just my two cents.

Minako Sawai · Apr 15, 2009, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Regina,

I'll even offer to put my money where my mouth (or words) are:

I've got $60.00 (some of my early birthday money, yay!) set aside on the chance ANet might have something on offer for the 4th anniversary. If the storage tabs are put on sale for $5 each (buy 4 tabs for $20, for instance) I'll spend all of that $60 on them (I have multiple accounts). I'd also add another $20 worth of tabs (if $5 each) on top of that, which is currently set aside for another game!

On the other hand, barring some other special you folks might run, none of that money will go to ANet, certainly not for tabs at $10 each. Not now, not ever, that is overpriced, IMO.

So far I've spent exactly $251.47 (yeah I keep track of these things, financial software FTW) on Guild Wars (multiple accounts, some In-Store stuff). I gladly spend money on things I consider worthwhile and good value. Like many people, I'm on a strict budget these days, so value for the dollar is important. I know I'm not alone on this as most everyone I've talked with in game or out says $5 is fair, $10 is way overpriced. I know there are processing fees involved, which is why I mentioned perhaps only offer that price if you buy all 4 at once, so that would be $20 at once.

So run that by those marketing types. $80 or zip, nada, nothing... multiplied by many many more players like me. You can even make sure I honor this post as you can easily get my info and all accounts are registered under the same name. Yes, I know that is very likely against the rules, but someone at ANet has access to that info and can confirm it for you, should such a sale or price happen.

Anyone else willing to make a similar offer and honor it?